Interviews

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Adult Swim Interview (02/01/2006): Dino Stamatopoulos on the creation of Moral Orel

If you're into television comedy, you're probably familiar with Dino Stamatopoulos' resume, which includes such shows as Mr. Show, Late Night with Conan O'Brien and The Ben Stiller Show. These days, however, Dino is busy scripting season two of Moral Orel, currently airing Sundays at midnight on Adult Swim. We're thrilled to talk to him.

Tell us about Moral Orel. Is this an idea you had been kicking around for awhile or was it something you dreamed up just for Adult Swim?

The real seed for the show came when I was working on Late Show with David Letterman around 1996. That was a frustrating time for me creatively. I took the Letterman job a] for money and b] because David Letterman's NBC show got me through high school alive. It was my dream job.

But after coming off Ben Stiller, Conan and a short stint on the stunted Dana Carvey Show, I was definitely a little spoiled when it came to writing for TV. Every job I had had was a show that I helped start up. So I jump aboard Letterman and I suddenly found that I was on this old huffing and puffing dinosaur of a show and it was no fun.

After a while I gave up thinking of ideas and decided just to wait out my thirteen week contractual obligation, after which I would go back to LA and work on Mr. Show. During that time I slept a lot, made a shirt out of paper clips, and wrote a pilot for Iggy Pop.

Iggy was at my agency at the time and I had just seen him in concert. He was great. Jumping around on stage and leaping off huge speakers like he was a 12-year-old boy. So I wrote something for him where I cast him as a 12-year-old boy. It was modeled after Leave It To Beaver. You know, innocent kid innocently getting into messes, trying to be good. I actually met Iggy and showed him the script and he really liked it. Well…he liked the title page: "Iggy" it was called. I gave it to him and he took it home and I never heard from him again. But I liked the script and used it to get other writing jobs.

Eventually, a year or two ago, someone from aspecialthing.com (a comedy fan website) suggested I turn the Iggy script into a cartoon. I thought it was a good idea and I adapted it into the "Waste" episode (let's face it, cartoons drinking urine is more palatable than real humans). It really clicked for me. I came up with a dozen ideas very quickly.

Did you watch Davey and Goliath when you were a kid? It seems to be an obvious influence, but are there others?

I didn't watch Davey and Goliath too often, but I have seen it. I was really fascinated with stop-motion as a kid. I even tried my hand at it a bit. What I really got into were those Rankin/Bass Christmas shows.

Moral Orel is more based on the sitcoms of the 50's and early 60's, like Leave It To Beaver, but I wanted add in the ingredient of the misinterpretation of religion. You know, I have nothing against God or Jesus. I think I would have liked Jesus a lot, and I only hope he would have felt the same about me. Davey and Goliath was actually more of an afterthought. It seemed very logical to do it in stop-motion, but I thought it would be way too expensive. I had seen a show called Joe 90 done with the Thunderbird marionettes and felt that their blank expressions would work perfectly with the creepy situations of the scripts. Then, I pitched the show to Nick Weidenfeld and he told me about Team America which was just about to come out. Nick was great, though. He was very enthusiastic about the idea and hooked me up with the Shadow guys who were working with a great group of stop-motion animators, set designers, etc. I never pictured the show looking so good.

But getting back to Davey and Goliath, I vaguely remembered the show and used it sort of peripherally as some kind of inspiration. But after I had written most of the episodes, I actually got a copy of Davey and Goliath and realized I remembered it completely wrong. The show isn't really THAT religious. They shoe-horn religious morals at the end of the episode, but the main body of the piece is just a kid being a normal kid. He's not especially good or bad. God isn't brought up much until it's time for the lesson. It's a pretty boring show and though I am never offended by anything, the closest I get is when people say this is a parody of Davey and Goliath. I'm very insecure about that because I hate parodies. Sure, I've written them in my life, but always with the knowledge that they had to stand on their own and be funny, even if you weren't familiar with the source material. But Moral Orel isn't a parody show. So there.

Who does Orel's voice? It's perfect.

Carolyn Lawrence, an old friend of mine. Well, she's young. I'm old. She does the voice of Sandy the Squirrel on Sponge Bob and Cindy Vortex on Jimmy Neutron. Yeah, she's great. Really gives Orel that sweet innocence without pushing the humor too much.

I think the whole cast is perfect. Scott Adsit as Clay (the dad) and Doughy is very subtle and hilarious.

Britta Phillips (who did the singing voice of Jem in the 80's and was in the band Luna) does a few women's voices including Bloberta (the mom). She nailed that voice. Cold, yet soothing.

William Salyers came on to do the voice of Reverend Putty. I can't picture anyone else doing that character, even though I was the one who had done it originally. Then Mike Lazzo, Nick Weidenfeld and I listened to it, got together and promptly fired me.

My 6-year-old daughter, Tigger, does the voice of Shapey (the little brother). She's not normally a screamer nor is she emotionally retarded, but she gets into that character so effortlessly that it's got me a little worried.

And Jay Johnston does almost every other voice on the show. The guy is one of the funniest people on earth. Let's hope he stays down here for a while.

The music for the show is genius. We particularly like "Burn in Heaven" and the sad, sad bar song. Who's responsible for that stuff?

Mark Rivers does all the music. He's really brilliant. Really a great musician and songwriter, PLUS he's very funny, and that's extremely important for this show. He's actually going to write an episode or two next season.

I wrote the lyrics to most of the songs into the script. Mark would sometimes add lyrics here and there to fill out the song in order for it to cover more action. He wrote the whole "Sad Sad Sad" song himself, though.

The only music Mark didn't do is the song in the sex shop: "Other People's Tongues," in Episode Five. That was written and performed by Dan Emery with his Mystery Band. Dan let us use the song for free. He's the nicest guy I know, and that's why he got screwed on the deal.

Are there any writing challenges in doing the show stop-motion as opposed to 2-D animation?

I wrote a lot of dialogue for these first ten because I felt that it would just be too expensive to animate a lot of action. At first, the theory was, we'll just film a bunch of talking heads and it will be really cheap. Basically, set the dolls down and roll the camera. We'll put the lips in later, digitally. Well, stop-motion animators like animating, you see? That's why they do it. They're not in it for the money…because they get paid ****. It's a real crime. These people are artists and actors. They love making these puppets move and some of their work is very inspiring and quite beautiful. Very soon we all realized that we could think of bits of action and represent it in the animatic.

I think we also added a lot of movement and physical bits in the storyboard process. I know Scott Adsit suggested that Orel jumps up on the store counter for the crack episode. That's definitely a highlight for that show. Scott is great at adding bits that are fun, yet enhancing what's already there with story and characters. Then, in the same show, Jay pitched the OPEN/CLOSING/CLOSED sign bit. And the hiccup bubbles in church. Very surreal. That's what Jay's perfect for. Throwing in jokes that come out of left field.

Feel free to correct us if we're wrong, but you seem to be a bit of a lone wolf in the writing department. Is that a false perception? How often do you collaborate with writing partners or do you prefer to work alone?

I wrote the first draft of all ten episodes on my own, developing the characters and the situations. It actually happened quite quickly. I was very clear on what I wanted the show to be.

Then I handed the scripts out to Scott and Jay and a few other writer friends to get their notes. After a quick rewrite pass they were pretty much done. And like I said, we all threw in bits during the storyboard stage.

A good portion of this first season is extremely structured. There's a definite formula that helped me write these very quickly. Now, next season is a different story. I don't want such a strict formula to the episodes. I want to explore other characters in the town for season two. Orel will play a big part again, but now we can relax with structure and get to see how the town works, not always relying on Orel's innocent mischief.

We have a script order for twenty; ten of which I have to write myself, but ten that I could farm out to other writers: Jay, Scott, Mark...Nick and I are writing one together, too. I'm really excited. There are a lot of great writers coming up with funny, original ideas. Second season will be a bit different, but I think a lot better.

How long does it take, from start to finish, to make an episode of Moral Orel?

Well, each stage is compartmentalized and sometimes separated by weeks or even months, so it's hard to give one answer for the whole process. But let's try, shall we? Pardon me if I think aloud.

The ten scripts were written in about three months.

Then all the voiceovers were done months later in about three or four days. Almost immediately, we started working with the storyboard artist. That schedule was one storyboard per week.

When each board was done, our editor, Chris McKay (an invaluable commodity) had a week to put each animatic together (basically cutting the voiceover soundtrack to the storyboard). This is where all the stages of production start overlapping. Storyboards, animatics and then animation.

We had about fifteen stages up and all the animators worked on different scenes simultaneously. They each averaged about 30 seconds a day and got an episode done in about a week. It's amazing how great it looks when they work at such a breakneck pace.

As the animation trickled in, Chris started editing all the pieces together and then the CGI boys kick into gear with special effects.

Next, came the sound mixing. That took a few weeks.

All in all, everything put together and cutting out the gaps, I'd say it took about seven months to write and produce the ten episodes.

Race, religion and sex pose challenges for anyone dealing with a standards and practices department. How much did you think about restrictions while writing the show or did you leave it up for others to decide?

I really don't think about it at all. I'm always surprised by what is deemed unacceptable. I have such a high threshold for being offended that I'm constantly presenting these scripts like they're squeaky clean sitcoms.

Once I wrote a musical about an insecure Dad who takes his newborn baby out for a walk in 30 below zero weather and accidentally kills it. It turns out that the dad suddenly becomes confident in being a father because the worst thing that could possibly happen has already happened, so he relaxes in his paternal role and actually starts loving his (dead) son for the first time. He decides to keep it. His wife wants a family so badly and is so touched that her husband finally has affection for their child, that she goes along with the whole thing.

The idea started as a comedy sketch, but then grew into something that I actually thought was kind of sweet. It surprised me. So I would tell my friends: "It's a musical about a dead baby, but it's not necessarily a comedy." They'd just look at me and go, "Oh really? No kidding? Not funny, you say. Imagine that."

So, to answer your question, I leave it up for others to decide what's offensive. Let the party poopers have that crappy job.

You share a studio with the Robot Chicken guys. Do you ever mess with their stuff?

No. I don't want to get fart jokes all over my clothes. That stuff never comes off. Ever.

You've written for a lot of an impressive list of comedy shows, like The Ben Stiller Show, Late Night With Conan O'Brien, Mr. Show and TV Funhouse. How did you get started?

My dad always wanted to be a writer, so when I showed interest, he encouraged me a lot. He lived vicariously through me. So, right off the bat, in high school, I tried writing a serious novel. Can you imagine? I never even dated a girl. What would I write about? I realized early on that comedy was my best bet. Sketch comedy clicked especially. I was a big Monty Python nerd.

Then, around 1987, Andy Dick and I had a two-man act in Chicago. We did this live stage show combined with pre-recorded video pieces. It was very interactive, a lot like Mr. Show, actually.

By the way, Andy might direct an episode of Moral Orel. I thought it would be an interesting experiment. Like giving a monkey a typewriter.

So anyway, in 1990 Andy moved to Hollywood and I stayed in Chicago, wrote my dead baby musical and then…The Simpsons debuted. That first season blew me away. At that point I did what any good writer would do. I bought all The Simpsons figures from Burger King, posed them around my futon, sat down with my word processor and wrote a script. For who, I don't know. All I remember is that I loved the show and I loved writing. I'm not known for thinking too much.

A few years later I moved to L.A., hung out with Andy and he got the part of The Ben Stiller Show. I submitted a script of sketches in the Stiller show format, with Ben, Andy, Bob and Janeane in it. I kind of co-wrote that with Andy and then they asked me if I could submit anything that I had written on my own. So I gave them my Simpsons script and I got the job.

What song, movie or TV episode do you wish you had written?

Song: "I Think I Need A New Heart" Magnetic Fields
Movie: Harold And Maude
TV Episode: Fawlty Towers: "The Germans"

Were you always interested in working in television? Are there other mediums that are interesting to you?

I tried movies, but those things are so looooong. These 11-minute Moral Orels are perfect for my metabolism.

What did you watch growing up?

Python, Woody Allen movies, Albert Brooks. I mean, those were the high school years. Before that I watched absolutely anything on TV. Welcome Back, Kotter, Happy Days, all that crap. I was basically a moth stuck to that static-ky light box.

Are you working on any other projects? We heard rumor that you penned an episode of a forthcoming Louis CK show for HBO.

Yeah, Louie's show is going to be great. The first live audience sitcom on HBO. It's going to be very special.

I also hope to write on my friend's (Dan Harmon) show. Well, actually, it's The Sarah Silverman Show, but he wrote it with Rob Schrab.

I'm really passionate about stop-motion animation, though. I feel there are a lot of untapped areas for it. I'd like to do more projects that feel like "The Best Christmas Ever." Those characters rang so true in that episode. I think it really disturbed people and ruined their Christmases. That's pretty great.

Do you have a favorite Adult Swim show?

Tom Goes To The Mayor, and not because my name's on the first season. I really did nothing on that show, but I think it's amazingly funny. Tim and Eric are like the comedy versions of Van Gogh. That show won't truly be appreciated till they're both dead. I can't wait.

We're so lonely. Do you have any DVD recommendations?

Any Cassavetes movie, especially A Woman Under The Influence and Minnie and Moskowitz. But be sure to listen to the commentary of Minnie and Moskowitz with Seymore Cassell and Gena Rowlands. You can tell she hates him, which is why Cassavetes cast the two of them together.

The Celebration
Real Life
The Virgin Spring
King Kong (1933)
Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein

That should tide you over for a bit.

What music are you listening to right now?

I just got into Elliott Smith. I know…a little late. Magnetic Fields, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, Jonathan Richman, Johnny Cash's American Recordings... My Mom was in the car when I was playing Johnny's version of Solitary Man. She said, "I didn't know you liked country/western music." To me, the genre of Johnny's last few albums are more aptly labeled: "Old-guy-on-the-brink-of-death music." I love his ancient, teetering voice on those CDs.

We have to ask. Did you go to church as a kid?

Yeah, every now and then my parents caught the God bug and my brother and I would have to go. It was a Greek Orthodox church and everything was in Greek so I barely understood what was going on and I really hated it. That may have been what really turned me off to organized religion. Who cares if you intellectually understand it? Just go through the motions. God will soak through your skin. It was a nightmare.

And everyone who went to church was repulsive to me. All the men and boys in bad polyester suits and the horrible Greek women in their make-up and pantyhose and lipstick. I actually threw up a lot in church. I was like Damien in the Omen.

George Carlin said: "I liked church. It was a weekly reminder that there was something worse than school." I felt exactly the same way.

That said, though, when I was about eleven or twelve, I did think about God a lot. You know, the good ol' fear of death really kicks in eventually. I remember when I was about four I started crying because I suddenly realized I was going to die some day, and that didn't really go down good with me. My Dad tried to ease my fear by telling me I wouldn't die for a very long time. Didn't help. Of course, God and Heaven did help. That's what they're there for, right?

Anyway, for a while there, I'd sit at school and smugly think: "I bet I'm the only one thinking about God right now." I was very pious that way. Very Orelly.

Should America give a crap about whether or not parts of James Frey's story are true?

I just Googled this James Frey of which you speak. Couldn't get through the whole Smoking Gun piece. I like that he fooled Oprah, though.

JT Leroy. You care?

Also Googled. I think Nick Weidenfeld told me about this. I had wished I cared then, but that feeling has since faded.

If you could eat a specific dish at any restaurant in the world right now, what and where would it be?

I'm not really that hungry right now. Ask me in a couple of hours.

Does God love Dino?

If there's a God, I think he has a sense of humor, so, no, I don't think he likes me.

Does God love Adult Swim?

Yeah, but he's getting sick of Family Guy.

Does God love Nick Weidenfeld?

No. Nick's a Jew.

Does Dino love Nick Weidenfeld?

What's not to love? He looks like a tiny, good-looking me. I want to be in him. He's not Jewish, is he?

Randy Newman once said he would kill his mother for a good song. What would you do for a good episode?

I suppose the standard comedy answer would be: "Kill Randy Newman's mother." But I assume she's already dead. "Short People" is a very good song.

The End.